glenatron | Damn it, Zorro!

So today wasn't so good- rode out solo after work, which we haven't done for quite some time ( riding out solo, I mean, the after work bit is kind of secondary ) which went about as expected- reasonably well and then Zorro got upset when I made the decision that we weren't going to go the way he believed was the shortest route home and I had to sit through another tantrum. Now there is a thing about Zorro's tantrums and it's that they keep on happening and I handle them and we get along but the pattern isn't changing, which means that as the one setting up this situation, I am not changing it.

The good news is that Zorro is a reasonably well trained horse- his work in the school shows that he understands what is being asked for and he is increasingly forward-going and soft in that work. I don't feel at all as though I am confusing him with what I ask.

The problem is that when we go out, particularly when we go out alone, but also in company which is one reason we're going to be practicing going out alone for a while, he feels that he needs to take over the moment things get anxious. In the past I would perhaps have thought this was a case of not having shown him that I can be trusted or be consistent or stay calm when he is concerned, but we've been working together for a long time now and I have been consistent and calm at least to a good enough degree that I feel like I should have seen some change.

The way it seems to me now is that he doesn't know how to look to anyone else when he gets concerned. The way he sees it, he's got to sort that out himself and if he can get shot of me in the process then all to the good.

So how do I fix it? The best idea I have so far is to practice, specifically by going out to the wide, comfortable bridleway at the bottom of the lane which is long and level and sandy, and just spending a long time standing there. And every time Zorro decides he's going to go home, or have a fit, or run after passing horses I'll stop him, put him back and we'll continue waiting. Depending on the results we may go and wait in some different places or even do some gentle ambling along the track, a bit like we might in the school. The important point here is that I need him to start to think that maybe he doesn't need to make all the decisions all the time.

It will be a while before I can work on this as somewhere during a particularly hectic moment on a steep hillside I seem to have strained an adductor muscle and I think it may come between me and riding for a while.
sigh
It's just getting tiresome is all. I know he's a pretty difficult horse, but sometimes I wonder whether I'm even remotely up to the job.

Current Mood: disappointed

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

penella22.livejournal.com

I'm reassured to see this post as it offers up solid proof that you're human and fallible and willing to admit to it too. All things I admire in other human beings.

To me this sounds like a relationship problem. It's not so much about rank as it is about trust, or he wouldn't listen to you when he wasn't anxious either. Some horses do this just to make it clear who's really in charge...but others do it because they simply can't see their way through to being able to depend on a human and have that human come through for them.

I'd prove to him that you can. Lunky cobs can be hard to spook, or at least Sage is, so I know this can be a challenge. But I propose that indirect thinking might work best here; find some contrived challenges you can practice facing with him on the ground, so he can learn to trust you. And separate from that take him out alone more routinely but in smaller doses. I like the exercise of leading them far enough away they start to get upset and turning them back towards the barn before they can really freak out and then ambling away from the barn again and just zig zagging back and forth until his comfort zone expands. That makes sense to me you know? It keeps him from having that all out panic moment.

I have one more thought to offer, at the risk of giving too much advice and not enough "I feel your pain";

Observe Zorro a little more closely on the ground or in the saddle...is he a horse who seems fine right up to the instant he's unhappy? Or does he give small warnings like tightening his mouth or his eyes changing a bit? I really think part of working with our horses effectively is understanding how they express themselves. Sage is so outgoing and extroverted I don't have to put much energy into this with him. It is at all times, pretty clear what he thinks of me. Thea on the other hand, I really have to be paying attention to or her explosions take me by surprise. It amazes me what a wide range of behavior I need to respond to their different temperaments. But I think if Zorro doesn't "tell you" ahead of time, that should really impact how you have this conversation with him about trusting your decisions.

But mostly, I'm just glad to see you being human. Hope that leg heals up soon, and that inspiration as to how exactly you want to deal with this hits soon.

From:

glenatron.livejournal.com

Only too fallible but much like the other awesome horsey people I've met through LJ, working as hard as I possibly can to circumvent it :)

The problem is that I need him to find a way to let down that isn't the same as rewarding him for being afraid. If you think of it in simple pressure-and-release terms, then being afraid is a pressure and if you yield too much to that then you're going to teach your horse that being afraid is what you are looking for. So although he does indicate to me that he is getting more anxious- I can feel his back tightening ( obviously, I'm working pretty hard at not looking at him while I'm riding because I'm trying to learn to operate through feel and seeing may distract from that ) and his heart rate picking up - I need to be finding a way to overcome that. Ideally I would like to find a solution that doesn't mean pushing him so far that he tries to leave, starts bucking or whatever else but also one that doesn't just mean we can run off home either. I think maybe the solution will be to ignore the problem as far as possible and just to keep practicing until it isn't an issue. This will probably entail some long and initially rather hectic rides...

There isn't really a question about leadership on the ground- Zorro won't push his luck too far in that circumstance now, so this really is a saddle thing. It's useful to know I can just hop off and be in control if I need to, but doing that kind of counts as an objective achieved for Zorro too and I worry that it might encourage exactly the behaviours I would prefer to discourage. I don't really know on that front, though, as I've heard acounts on both sides, but I'm reluctant to risk it too far.

From:

buymeaclue.livejournal.com

Ideally I would like to find a solution that doesn't mean pushing him so far that he tries to leave, starts bucking or whatever else but also one that doesn't just mean we can run off home either.

Have you tried giving him a job to do when you feel him start to get anxious? (Or better yet, slightly before? Even just at intervals for a while?)

Takes some timing and feel, but I don't think I've ever ridden a horse that some variation of that didn't work for. The idea is that you get in and break up the resistance and gives him something to react to in a positive way--a way you can reward and that over time he can learn to seek for himself--before he reaches the point of needing to react to the world in general in a way you'd prefer he didn't.

From:

glenatron.livejournal.com

This is exactly what I need to be doing, the problem being that I need to find a job that one can do in the potentially limited space of a trail and ideally doesn't involve pointing ourselves back home, which is a recipe for trouble.

Starting out really working and experimenting with it on a wide open trail is probably a useful beginning. I guess a bit of shoulder-in or similar might be something to build on.

From:

buymeaclue.livejournal.com

Shoulder-in is a good one, especially if part of his trick involves popping or dropping a shoulder. I also have a lot of luck with bending one way for a few steps, straightening for a step, then bending the other way for a few steps, etc., and with a leg-yield zig zag from one side of the trail to the other.

If the space was really narrow, I might try a few steps of moving turn on the forehand and then a few steps back the other way and evolve that into the on-trail equivalent of some nose- or tail-to-the-wall leg yield.

Do you typically work in the school and then hack afterwards, or do you generally go right out?

From:

glenatron.livejournal.com

We generally go right out and maybe spend a little time in the school when we get back if I feel like he needs it.

From:

buymeaclue.livejournal.com

Might try working a bit beforehand and then going out, if you have enough light in the evenings at this point. I find it sometimes helps to make sure all the buttons are working properly and horse is in a working frame of mind before moving into the less comfortable/controlled situation. Not something one should have to do forever, but it can make a difference in the working-through-whatever stage.

From:

glenatron.livejournal.com

I used to do this in the past and you're probably right, it would be useful to go back to it. I mostly stopped because I didn't want Small to have to keep waiting for us but of course that's not such an issue when we're riding out alone...

From:

allezbleu.livejournal.com

this!

From:

penella22.livejournal.com

The way I see it, horses have comfort zones, and there's one line they cross from totally comfy to hmm, this is a little new for me...and then a second line they cross where the situation becomes intolerable for them, overwhelming, more than they can bear.

I absolutely agree with you that if you back off the pressure everytime he acts scared, you'd only reinforce his fears. Bad idea. But what I was going for was crossing that first line and stopping before you hit the second. So ride him out a ways, get off and walk for a little while, get back on, get off again, because those shorter exposures will help build his confidence but hopefully introduce things to him in such a way that he's not getting overwhelmed to where he explodes.

I agree with

buymeaclue that work can help give him boundaries and distract him, and reinforce the idea that you're the leader. But at a certain level of overwhelmedness I think the ceases to work. And just ignoring it and practicing through those first hectic rides will probably get the job done, but at your physical expense. Personally I'd rather drift in sideways towards his anxious zone than approach it head on.

Another exercise I've heard of is the leap frog exercise. I'm sure you've probably heard of it too. But you go out with another horse and practice lagging far behind for awhile, and then catching up, then leading way in front for awhile...wash rinse repeat. It's another way of being more independent in steps rather than one fell swoop.

When Sage gets a little antsy being away from Thea I tend to use serpentines, or do small figure 8's. But we're mainly in fields or on a paved road so there's room for that...