If you call the monster he will appear

[glenatron]

No, it's no good, having just posted about how irritable I am and then thinking about Anthropogenic Climate Change and those who voice their stupid opinions about it has made me really annoyed.

I guess my starting point is this story which is discussing how people say things like "We can't even predict the weather tomorrow- how can we possibly predict that the world is warming up?" They say things like that because they are morons. The responses to it annoyed me enough that I had to add one myself, but the essence of any argument on ACC seems to go like this:

A: "I think it's reasonable to follow the scientific consensus that suggests that humans are responsible for a long-term increase in global warming?"
B: "Oh, a scientific consensus is it now? I think you'll find there is no such thing. It's just the government trying to find excuses for new taxes!"
A: "So what would be the word for the majority of the world's scientists agreeing about something?"
B: "Al Gore!
A: "I'm sorry?"
B: "You love Al Gore you do. You and him have sloppy makouts the whole time!"
A: "You're trying to change the subject, I'm talking about Climate Change!"
B: "Yes, and in the seventies they said there would be an ice age and was there? So you're wrong."
A: "Who is this they? Are you referring to a couple of climatologists and The Clash?"
B: "You're stinky!
A: "That's not an argument"
B: "Look! I've got a puppet of you and one of Al Gore! You're kissing Al Gore! Kissy kissy kissy!!!"
A: *sigh*

And that is literally the entire debate. I'm trying to work out what on earth they are so afraid of. What do these people think is going to happen to them if the climatologists are right? They're embarrassingly desperate for any shred of argument they can hold up to shield them from the idea that the people whose work is to study this subject might be right. It's as though they just want to be contrary for the sake of it, like they're building a new science purely on the power of selecting only evidence that suits you and pure stupid. Welcome to the endarkenment.

Of course, it's not my job to understand the climate and I haven't dedicated the years of study to it that I would need to in order to make an informed judgement. But people who have put in that kind of work all seem to think that ACC is happening so I'm willing to go with that. I don't think that there's anything we can do about it, though - there is too much inertia in the systems that we would have to change and when you bunch people together into society we can be characterised as fat, lazy, stupid, selfish and wasteful. The only thing that's going to stop us is an external control- at best something like the Hubbert Peak at worst the result of the wars over water, inhabitable land and other resources that will be increasingly in short supply as things get hotter and the climate gets increasingly unstable.

It could well be that future generations look back on this time as a golden age of peace and prosperity, so lets enjoy the things we have while we have them.

Comments

[stu-the-elder.livejournal.com]

Things like the creation of the Soylent nutrition company and the herding of the stupid into its waiting slaughterhouses? I believe we'll both make fine CEOs.

- Crumpwright

[penella22.livejournal.com]

depressing isn't it? Thank God they make happy pills, I really think anyone with half a brain needs them these days. (rolls eyes)

As to why they are so stubborn? Hmm, ok. For starters, the Christian take on things (God created the Earth FOR US) does not fit in well with climate change. If God loves them and watches out for them why would HE do such a thing and heat up the entire f*ing planet? And yes, God loves them, so...clearly there IS no global warming.

Secondly, at least over here in my stupid selfish capitalistic society (which admittedly is responsible for bringing me a life of great convenience and comfort) people resent ANYTHING that may imply that they have to change. Why...if global warming was real, they may just have to stop using their air conditioners whenever they goddamn please. They might have to change in a way that is not 100% convenient to them. And they may even have to think about something other than themselves. Oh no, we're not going there...

Thirdly...lots of entrepeneurial types make loads of money off of things that are decidedly unenvironmental. Like...oil, let's say? Or cars that run on gasoline, or electricity powered by nuclear reactors, etc. etc. And why make less money NOW when you can make a killing and live like a king and die BEFORE you have to watch your children suffer through the consequences of massive weather change?

The way I see it, one of the biggest problems is that I live in a culture of instant gratification. Now now now. Fast food nation (the book) ring a bell? People like that don't THINK about the future. maybe they don't think period. they just have impulses, wants, and do what they can to gratify them...

*shrugs* that probably doesn't help take away the grumpiness any. Mwahaha, welcome to my world...
:-(

[penella22.livejournal.com]

if it helps cheer you up any...this website is pretty neat somewhat random, but definitely a good domestic dwelling if we have to, y'know...survive any tornadoes for example. :-)

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

And space for grazing on the roof. Best of both worlds...

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

There is a great site of Hubbert Peak doomsaying over at lifeaftertheoilcrash.net (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net) - they may slightly overstate their case but it's some awesome pessimism and I always enjoyed a bit of catastrophism over my breakfast cereal.

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

Wait, you're suggesting that Soylent Green is people?

[penella22.livejournal.com]

oh yeah...I've been there before. My alter-ego daninamoon9 belongs to a group called peakoil or something...Now nothing against the people over there, but they were entertaining! I mean, talk about your freaking out!

:-\

I remember one debate over whether we should all have aluminum bicycles or if we all would need metal ones (much heavier) too, because aluminum ones won't last long enough. Somewhere along the way I decided to go back to living in the present. I have seen a very cool movie about how Cuba(? I think it was Cuba) dealt with their oil crisis, which happened over 10 years ago. It was awesome!!! I doubt people in the U.S. would cope that well.

[penella22.livejournal.com]

what would be really cool is if I could have a car that ran on biodiesel...or the sun...whatever. :-)

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

Biodiesel is actually a pretty bad option (http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/12/06/worse-than-fossil-fuel/) it transpires, if a nice theory.

When the cars get too expensive will be a good time to be handy around horses, I reckon :)

[penella22.livejournal.com]

but of course!

I know biodiesel is a much debated thing...but I do think it is better than oil under the right circumstances...

[penella22.livejournal.com]

OMG I just read the link you have above and yikes! But part of that is not inherent to biodiesel...its inherent to corporate culture, and the greediness of human beings. That's awful...my god we don't have that many forests left!!

Biodiesel in a more sustainable, realistic context

Its not going to save the world, but its a step, a teeny tiny step in the right direction. And I guess I feel why not take 1/380th that wasted veggie oil does provide and use it?? And also work on solar cars, traveling less, integrating bicycles more...heck Sage would be a great commuter vehicle! You should see how far a handful of oats goes with him. ;-) And meanwhile, why not use biodiesel made locally to produce the hay he eats right?

I know...its hopeless optimism...but...

Guess we both ought to investigate buggies and 'one horse sleighs' huh? ;P

[life-of-tom.livejournal.com]

You know, if we wanted to get about in a world where we can't make our cars go on their own, then maybe it'd be handy if there were, like, these things you could attach to cars or wagons or something, that would maybe be able to pull them. Maybe those things could be set up somehow to power themselves from stuff that's just, kind of, growing everywhere.

Now, if only we had things like that.

Seriously, wouldn't sleek carbon fibre stage-coaches pulled by horses be awesome? They'd certainly beat the Megabus as a way of getting about.

And I think people's reluctance to face facts is a bit like the huffy mood I get in when told that I haven't washed up properly. Despite the fact that there is food clinging to the plates and someone else has had to do them, I still sulkily insist that 'it's not that bad' and that the person telling me it is has proven themself to be on some level a bed person. See also whiny teenagers and bedrooms for further demonstration of this analogy.

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

Reckon so... certainly I'm thinking of horses as a good Plan B for if the computers stop. The thing that I think looks to totally rule for wheeled transport is the Saddlechariot...

Monbiot is a great writer who has put together one of the only truly optimistic books on globalisation ( the brilliant Age Of Consent ) and really cuts through to the serious issues that confront us. The world needs more people like him... (http://naturaldriving.co.uk/content_home.php) ()

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

I think you're probably right. Also piqued creationists...

Witness the Saddlechariot link above. It's pretty much a hi-tech chariot, but it could be characterised as a hairy quad-bike as well. It's awesome.

[penella22.livejournal.com]

ok...that is pretty damn cool. although admittedly, not much storage space...

all-terrain...AWESOME!!