Motormouth mare

[glenatron]

Iris has always been quite busy in her mouth, tending to chomp at the bit, especially when she is anxious. I noticed it particularly when we were working on riding out the last few times and I realised that it wasn't just a manifestation of anxiety, there seemed to be a stereotypical element to it as well. So I set down and asked her not to. Just doing some gentle work on the ground, holding the bit rings and asking her to follow a feel without releasing until she had quit munching at the bit and was just holding it.

Two sessions later she seems to be able to just carry the bit most of the time. I'm ever so pleased with her but I can't help but feel a bit of a chump for not spotting it sooner.

Comments

[re-vised.livejournal.com]

Interesting! Madrid does this when I first put the bridle on... Makes me wonder if he's anxious about our rides. Thanks for this!

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

Doing work where you just hold the bit rings and use them to gently but consistently direct the horse - through basic bending to moving their feet and following a feel - is actually a pretty good exercise to go back to from time to time just as a reminder. I have no idea why I haven't worked on it more previously, though.

[re-vised.livejournal.com]

There is always so much to work on, and it gets pushed around and forgotten, I think. :)

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

That's why some old-timers like to bit the horse up (tie the reins to the saddle like side reins). Enough for the horse to get a feel but not be restrictive. I've watched young horses wander and fiddle with the bit as part of this technique. Eventually they get over it and learn to carry the bit. The other thing is that this can be an indication that they don't care for the type of mouthpiece they're carrying.

Also a good idea to do this when introducing a solid bit, no reins, without the typing of reins to the saddle--and obviously all this is supervised!

[puddleshark.livejournal.com]

Interesting! I wish I'd known that back in the days when my dressage instructor was strapping Charm's poor mouth tightly shut with a flash... (Though I did eventually learn enough to chuck both the flash and the instructor away).

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

It's all about the timing of the release. Everything with horses. Amazing how much easier that one piece of information can make things.

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

Martin would bit them up with just a bit on a piece of elastic while he did everything else. I think the horse would often have so much going on that they didn't really have time to worry about the bit.

[serennig]

I'd say that's pretty observant of you to figure that out. Thanks for sharing!

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't revisit that concept off and on during the first year or so when working long-term with a horse. Done right, it is a nice tool for letting the horse teach itself about bits and mouth pressure without human interference. Maybe it's just my experience with Quarter Horse and Arab temperaments, but it seems like things like that, where you set the horse up to study and think about human equipment and make its own accommodations with it without direct human involvement appear to be some of the deepest learned lessons. It gives them time to relax into it.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, another comment. Stereotypic behavior like that is why some Western riders resort to solid bits with a cricket. It helps horses who would otherwise be tense to relax and salivate (crickets or rollers are usually copper. Old Western riders really like sweet iron and copper because it promotes a wet mouth).

Another thing about giving to the bit rings. I'm realizing that there's a lot of people who don't know about 4-H and showmanship in the competitive scene. Showmanship does a lot of foot control. It's halter competition on a pattern, with all the points going to the handler. Horses have to stand square consistently (or slightly stretched for some breeds). The handler has to be able to cue forehand turns and haunches turns very precisely.as well as sidepass. I think one reason I get so bemused by why so many people consider natural horsemanship groundwork to be a big revelation is because some much of it is similar to what good, consistent, Showmanship training is. I started with that type of work because my first horse was a yearling Shetland.

I enter Showmanship at every show we attend, simply because it's a good way to accustom Mocha to the arena and besides, I kind of like that stuff. But I haven't gotten serious about certain aspects of it until I went to a Wallowa County show last summer and saw a canny old show and rodeo gelding who just automatically took the squaring up position without cueing outside of the arena when his handler stopped to talk to someone. I thought to myself that I wanted Mocha to do that (and it was something we could work on during this past year of rehab and white line disease management). It's been a challenge because horses don't normally want to stand square all the time, but now I'm thinking it's also good for Mocha's bad hip (old hip injury coming back to haunt us on occasion).

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

I don't think it's coincidence that the whole "clinic" format was pretty much invented by Ray Hunt teaching 4H students. There is a connection there for sure.

I would love to get to a point where I had a horse who was ready to be straight up in the bridle - I wonder whether that was more common in the south-western tradition because until they horse had a bridle bit they would have typically have been worked in a hackamore rather than experiencing a bit previously.

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

I agree on that- it's one reason I would quite like to work Iris with a high tie- she ties up well enough by British standards but I would like her to learn how to tie up properly like a working horse and a fair number of people I respect seem to suggest that is a useful tool in that direction.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

Um, actually the progression is snaffle, hackamore, two-rein, then straight up in the bit. I have a Californio friend who learned it from her uncle who was an old spade bit hand. Perhaps in the 19th century the hands used hackamore to spade but the current hands usually follow that tradition.

The spade bit is not a Southwestern tradition but a buckaroo/California tradition. Think Eastern Oregon/Idaho/Western Montana/Northern Nevada/Northern California. Southwestern riders used grazing bits. The tradition has spread a little bit but the riding style and the spade training really is a Great Basin/California thing. Details, details.

Mike Bridges is a Northern California horseman who teaches a five year progression program for horses going into the spade bit. He also has some really nice videos out there. I recommend his stuff. Benny Guitron also has good stuff.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

Oh, and the rationale for moving from snaffle to hackamore and starting in the snaffle as opposed to a bosal is to a.) keep the nose soft in the bosal (a HUGE thing), and move to the bosal when the horse is shedding teeth.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

What are you meaning by a "high tie"--a picket line?

The best way to tie up a horse like a working horse is to get a stout post or tree, tie about five feet up, then park the horse while working other horses. I'm a firm fan of the patience post. You can also work on it in cross ties if you're doing things around the barn (no twine! Twine is right out! If she only ties with twine, then patience post first).

Basically, tieing her to something solid and then letting her fret, then self-soothe and learn to relax can be done while you're working on chores, schooling another horse, or something like that. You just want to be around in case, but don't rescue her if she's just being fretful and fidgety.

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

The advantage of a picket line type set up ( or traditionally tying up to a high branch ) is that you can set it up so there is nothing for the horse to collide with and whatever direction they take away from the tie point increases pressure so they find that the most comfortable place to be is right at the point they were tied.

[glenatron.livejournal.com]

Depends who you ask, though - talking to Jeff Sanders, who is pretty deep in that tradition, he says that the snaffle wasn't something they used as standard. Martin generally concurs as regards the California tradition and observes that the main reason that they snaffle was the first bit his family ( and a people with a lot of young stock ) favoured was because if they wanted to sell horses to the cavalry, they needed to be good in the snaffle. That market practicality has sort of become part of the tradition, but from what I can tell a lot of the explanations as to why the snaffle came before the hackamore is retro-fitting justifications onto decisions. Also of course most competition is built around that progression, so that becomes a way of shaping the way of shaping things as well.

My sources may well be incorrect- I'm a lot further from this stuff than you are of course - but it does make sense that they would use fewer rather than more steps.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't do it for this sort of lesson. A solid post tied high is better. It's not like she's fresh off the range and you have to worry about her going nuts, and if she ties already, what you're teaching is to stand patiently and calmly. Tying to a solid post with a quick-release knot is more effective--a picket line type of arrangement is only as solid as the ends of the rope that it's tied to.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

It's not just about the market but also preserving the softness of the nose. A good hackamore horse still is responsive on the nose, and starting in the snaffle got around some issues on that front.