glenatron | Thoughts after travelling with Ross

Last weekend was the non-clinic with Ross Jacobs - in the end it worked out as a mixture of a few private lessons and a sort of half-clinic, which worked out well. I certainly learned a lot from watching him work and the sessions we did with Cash, although I didn't get back in the saddle- Ross was of the opinion that if I want to be safe with the little guy I need to get his anxiety levels really low before I think about getting back on. If that cup of anxiety is nearly full, then it's not going to take much to push him over into a panic, if I can get it close to empty, there will be more margin for error.

Rather than a coherent write-up, I have a bunch of things I noticed and that seemed important at the time, no doubt it only makes sense in parts and probably Ross would be sorry to see his work thus misconstrued, but this is some of what I got:

The only thing you do when you are training a horse is direct their thought. Through the mind to the body to the feet. Horses have very few reflexive movements, so almost everything they do, even spooking, starts with a thought.
When you ask for something and your horse is trying something different to what you are asking for, make it clear to them that is not what you want so they look for something else quickly. Don't give them too long feeling lost or coming up with their own ideas, keep them searching for the thing you are looking for.
Leading, don't let the horse drag behind, don't let them get ahead, keep them in the spot where they can be with you. When a horse is dragging, Ross will keep the tension in the rope by just keeping walking at the same speed and then smack his leg with the rope ( he wears noisy chaps that help with this ) to put in more energy. It may seem counter-intuitive to make a fuss in the direction you are asking the horse to go, but they need to be able to handle it, so this has a kind of double purpose. With a more experienced horse the noise is more of an "excuse me, please pay attention" so you don't want them getting too anxious about it. Ross is of the opinion that you shouldn't wait for your horse, just expect them to come with you and ensure there is a consequence for not doing.
There is a big difference between directing and driving a horse- when you drive, you set up something that you want them to move away from, when you direct, you give them somewhere to go.
Ross does all his desensitisation type stuff, swinging the rope over the horse's back and so on, at walk. If they are stood still they can kind of plant their feet and shut the world out a bit, but if they are moving they will express their feelings more clearly and once they are calm on the move they are probably alright with whatever you are getting them used to.
On a circle, you know a horse is straight if their shoulder and hip are the same difference from you. Ross has found no evidence that a horse can curve their spine behind the wither as it is often suggested they can on tomes of dressage expertise, but the shoulder and hip are the points on the circle so should be equidistant. See the line the horse is on, and keep them there. If the hip is dropping in their thought is moving out of the circle, if the shoulder is dropping in they are either pushing on you a little or their thought is moving out in that direction, either way you want to get them thinking back onto the circle.
If you want to keep your horse thinking you must keep the work varied. They will find patterns that they can fall into without thinking if they possibly can.
Never quit asking for something until you have a change of thought. Just moving the feet is not enough- if you ask for a left turn you need the horse to think to the left then move their feet. You should be able to ask them to look left with no mental pushback to the right, once you have that, they will be able to step left really easily.
Don't tell a horse to drop a thought if you don't have a different one to offer them. If you just say "don't do that, don't do that, don't do that" you're going to create problems. "Don't do that, do this instead" helps them to find what you are looking for.
Ross teaches hindquarter yields starting with the horse bent around until they actually bring their thought around with the rein. This is not the eventual goal, but they need to bend without trying to pull back at all and connect that bend to the feet. As the horse understands the cue you should have the rein connecting to the feet with much less bend. Ross looks for the inside foot stepping under.
Start out controlling the hindquarter with your rein, with the goal being to get the horse to yield their hindquarter with your leg and the reins totally slack. If you are using your leg but the horse moves forward without support from the rein, they haven't understood that work yet, stick with the rein.
Help a horse soften their neck in trot ( or walk, canter, but trot is easiest to start ) by lifting the inside rein straight up until they start looking for something different, as soon as they offer a lowered head, follow them down. Once they can relax down easily and consistently you can begin picking them up and asking them to carry themselves better, but that can only be done from a relaxed and long back. If their nose drops below their knee, they are starting to evade, just ask them not to do that.
Never accept anything because anyone told you to. Always question why you should do something a different way. Test ideas, don't just accept them. Ross often asks people why he has told them to do something- he's really determined that you learn to figure things out for yourself.
Observe everything about your horse- the tightness of their mouth, the shape of their nostrils, how much they are blinking, how they are moving- all these things are indicative of where they are at mentally.
On voice cues: "A horse has a vocabulary of around nine or ten sounds, so sound isn't very meaningful to them. You can teach them to walk, trot and canter off sounds, but the walk you get will always be the walk they give you, the same for trot, the same for canter. I never heard of a horse who could do collected trot, medium trot, extended trot and so on from vocal cues."

Feel free to ask away about anything that doesn't make sense there, or go over to Ross' site and get him to clarify...

Current Music: Abney Park - The End Of Days

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From:

joycemocha.livejournal.com

As always, some good things and some areas of difference. Keep in mind, though, that I also think one needs to take into consideration a particular horse's work ethic and drive. Some horses have excellent work ethics and like to solve puzzles/physical challenges. Others want nothing more complex than their next meal.

--Not big on the use of "thought" but I know what he's getting at. Also not thrilled about the use of "life," "energy," & etc to describe that process. I'd probably just use mind, myself, but that's a usage that has meaning for me and may not work for others.

--Love his desensitization theories. Even finished horses benefit from being desensitized to new things.

--Agree with his leading theories. I've found that with certain big, bullish stock-type QHs used to throwing their weight around and bullying a handler (i.e., spoiled horse) that the use of a stud chain for one or two sessions sharpens them right up and gets to the point where then all you need to do is slap your leg with the rope and they pick right up. However, using a chain is a tool for a skilled handler. You have to set it up correctly so that it releases when you want it to, and you have to know not to nag--ask, use, release.

--Also love the "don't tell the horse to drop a thought if you have nothing to offer them." So very true, so very true!

--Nose below the knee does not always equal evasion, but the rider needs to be sufficiently skilled to know the difference. The same horse may have different modes. Mocha, for example, will stretch her nose low down below her knee to stretch out her shoulders and neck after a protracted spell in collected work. She can lope that way in balance. At the same time, she can also drag her nose to be naughty and look for nibbles of grass, hay wisps, etc. At all three gaits. It's something to watch her do it on the lunge line.

--Horses and patterns--some horses seek patterns more intensely than others. Rather than it being an unconscious activity for them, they are always looking for the pattern and anticipating it. I've seen this in Mocha and in a very well-trained, high level child's eventer-turned-schoolie. These horses tend to be the smarter, more athletic sort of performance horse for the most part. These horses also tend to be rather opinionated about changes in their routines (not just under saddle but stable routines) and, at the least, will give you annoyed looks and facial expressions to tell you that you've gone off pattern and you're doing it wrong. On the flip side, a horse like this who prefers the predictable routine will settle right down in a new or exciting environment when you begin the "grooming routine" or the "saddling routine" at a show.

From:

glenatron.livejournal.com

The differences were noticeable to me because Ross has a different background from most people I have learned with, coming more from his work with Harry Whitney, rather than the Dorrance/Hunt tradition that I have learned more from.

I think "thought" is probably the right word- he wants the horse's mind going exactly where he is directing it, with them thinking about going where he is asking them to go and not anything else. Life and energy are terms I use because I'm used to them. Seems like this is an area where most people have their own terminology.

With the nose-below-knee thing, it's probably easier to generalise it as an evasion and allow people who have got to a point where their horse is in balance when their head is down there to get the hang of that for themselves, they're probably going to be a fair way along the road at any rate. The goal Ross was talking about was really to be able to bring the head up from there until the poll is the highest point, which is pretty much a classical thing as I understand it.

I think Ross focusses on avoiding patterns because he doesn't want the horse to be looking to the pattern instead of looking to their human. This is a bit of a balance point for me because I absolutely agree that I would rather my horse looked to me rather than needing a pattern to get them feeling safe, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like to have something handy just in case. What Ross is really focussing is more about making sure the horse keeps looking for input from the human rather than giving them an opportunity to go off with their own thoughts and tune out. When you're working with your horse in any context you want that to be their focus as much as it is yours so if you do too many repetitions of any particular thing you've got a good chance of teaching the horse to do those things that way in that order, rather than teaching them to listen to your cues and follow them. It's a really fine balance.

From:

joycemocha.livejournal.com

Well, I'm also aware that I'm probably not in the group that these clinics are aimed at (grin). I'm not certain I completely agree with regard to control over thought. But the degree to which you want to exert control over the horse's thoughts is also going to depend upon the equine temperament. There are circumstances where I want to give the horse the right to let me know that there's a disagreement in how to approach a situation. And, depending upon the horse's common sense and discipline, the degree to which I will acknowledge that input and give them a chance to express that concern will vary.

At risk of tl;dr here. Basically, I want the horse to have the confidence that they can tell me "Hey! I'm really worried about this." I can choose to agree with their concern and provide my input on how to deal with it or I can blow it off because I've IDed the problem and the horse really needs to get over it. There's been a few circumstances where I've encountered mountain lions, bear, or something else of concern that the horse IDs before me. If I've established with the horse that it can tell me about a concern and be respected, then in those really big issues the horse is going to look to me after the initial startle, rather than startle and then react. Then again, this is a legitimate situation for me because bear and mountain lion have been spotted near the barn, and there's lots of coyotes around. I WANT to know if Mocha gets worried so I can anticipate issues. Now getting over racing bikes on the road...that's different from something she's smelled that could be a predator.

I do agree with both you and Ross about patterns. There are useful patterns--the everyday routine of grooming and tacking, for example. I've literally calmed Mocha down in an exciting barn situation by beginning one of those regular routines. But there's also patterns under saddle (see, for example, Mocha anticipating my six loop pattern, most recent post). One reason Western performance riders never practice an entire pattern is to avoid anticipation. The same issues also arise in trail class. Judges want to see the horse looking to the rider for direction. However, in practical everyday working riding, the rider might want anticipation and more independent thought.

I also find the best way to get a horse to refocus is to work the transitions. If a horse really pisses me off because it's being a butthead then I will start throwing fast transitions at them. However, there's also a place for fast transitions with a cooperative, higher level horse because those horses start seeing the work as a fun game. But doing this work requires a deft hand and a lot of tact because it's a fine balance. A horse like Mocha gets to be a lot of fun at this level because a lot of my training focus becomes showing her the rhythm of a particular movement. Once she gets that rhythm, she enjoys playing that game. I'm counting on that keen interest to develop tempi changes in her before midwinter. We've fumbled through them but she's got a big mental block (due to past training that did need to happen, but now we have to convince her that the Exceptions Are Okay). However, even the first fumbling attempts are Way Kewl. I can just imagine what happens when both of us get to the point where we have the strength and timing to hold it and do it correctly.

From:

glenatron.livejournal.com

As Ross says, the people whose horses are going really well don't come along to clinics that often, so he doesn't get as much chance to work on the fancy stuff with people. It's one of the nice things with the clinic group I've ridden with on Steve's clinics is that people have made progress steadily over years so they are starting to get to a slightly higher level, which makes the clinics a lot more interesting.

I don't think that you would ever get to a place where you shut down a horse's self preservation or where you would want to. But as you say, the human needs the casting vote.