Interesting as always to see different viewpoints within "natural horsemanship" and also what those different perspectives have in common with each other.
Tom sounds like a very grounded individual, and with horses excelling at reading body language, our energy, and our emotions, his common sense approach and calm persistence sound fantastic.
I had never really thought about Parelli that way, but I would say he's right; in Parelli work when you decide the horse is going to do something, eventually he does it. The caveat to that is there is no time limit. I think having a clear goal in mind helps us humans be convincing and have clearer body language for our horse, but honestly in Parelli, whatever goal you have in mind, you may not even get there in that session...it may be in 3 days or 3 weeks, Parelli counsels that the human sets the goals, but the horse sets the time limits.
I totally agree that horses need good leaders. It seems like a lot of the stuff that came up in this clinic is humans who confuse their horse's attempts to push boundaries with overtures of affection. Horses are so good at disguising their attempts as such. I see that pitfall come up again and again, and Sage does that too...I wonder if they stop doing it if you have satisfactorily shown them you are their leader?
I also like the way Tom has people set up pressure and release as warmer and colder. They do that in Parelli too, and I do find that making a simple game of it keeps it fun, keeps the human from getting too emotional (angry, frustrated), and makes the boundaries very clear.
Also, Parelli talks about "the better a horse can back up, the better it can do everything else." I see that in Tom's work too. (I'm not saying Parelli INVENTED all these concepts, just that I am familiar with them through Parelli and I like those concepts.)
OH! And horses that panic...and then the rider tries to leave them alone when really the horse needs some structure and boundaries. That's good stuff too. Its so strange to me because I used to ride quite difficult horses as a teenager, when I took dressage lessons, and this was back before I had ever heard the words "natural horsemanship" and I was great at giving flighty horses boundaries, it's what my instructor told me to do, and it also seemed to be my natural instinct for it. Now that I am older I am much more educated on the importance of such boundaries, and I have a fairly calm and reliable horse...and whenever he does spook at something (which is really pretty rare, I guess I mean when he lifts his head suddenly and something captures his attention outside the ring) what do I do??? I TURN AND LOOK!!!! (palm * forehead). Arggghhh. I guess its either because Sage is so calm that if HE finds it scary, well then, I BELIEVE him, or that I've gotten less confident in my old age. I do wonder how I would be now with the flighty horses I used to ride as a teenager. Needless to say, I think setting boundaries for them and staying calm when they have a moment like that is so much easier said than done.
With the idea of accuracy...#1 the lady who started Sage under saddle was a Monty Roberts freak (worse than some of the PQ's I've met) and she really said that horses are yes or no animals. Either you ARE in charge, or you're not. There is no maybe. That was really valuable for me to hear. The other cocept that I find goes well with that is Sally Swift's centered riding stuff...because she talks about how horses think in pictures, and if we can VISUALIZE clearly in our minds what we want the horse to do, then chances are better that the horse will do it.
Small looks great by the third backing up picture!!! (And I love the hot pink helmet...)
And...the whole don't worry so much about past mistakes thing...that's been such a tough lesson for me, but I like his philosophy on it. That's another thing my MR fanatical trainer used to say last spring.
WOW! What an improvement Lottie made...that's a whole different horse! Tom's principle of moving if the horse moves and releasing if the horse stays still is similar to Parelli's concept of "approach and retreat" too...unless I'm understanding it wrong?
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Date: 14 Sep 2007 13:42 (UTC)Interesting as always to see different viewpoints within "natural horsemanship" and also what those different perspectives have in common with each other.
Tom sounds like a very grounded individual, and with horses excelling at reading body language, our energy, and our emotions, his common sense approach and calm persistence sound fantastic.
I had never really thought about Parelli that way, but I would say he's right; in Parelli work when you decide the horse is going to do something, eventually he does it. The caveat to that is there is no time limit. I think having a clear goal in mind helps us humans be convincing and have clearer body language for our horse, but honestly in Parelli, whatever goal you have in mind, you may not even get there in that session...it may be in 3 days or 3 weeks, Parelli counsels that the human sets the goals, but the horse sets the time limits.
I totally agree that horses need good leaders. It seems like a lot of the stuff that came up in this clinic is humans who confuse their horse's attempts to push boundaries with overtures of affection. Horses are so good at disguising their attempts as such. I see that pitfall come up again and again, and Sage does that too...I wonder if they stop doing it if you have satisfactorily shown them you are their leader?
I also like the way Tom has people set up pressure and release as warmer and colder. They do that in Parelli too, and I do find that making a simple game of it keeps it fun, keeps the human from getting too emotional (angry, frustrated), and makes the boundaries very clear.
Also, Parelli talks about "the better a horse can back up, the better it can do everything else." I see that in Tom's work too. (I'm not saying Parelli INVENTED all these concepts, just that I am familiar with them through Parelli and I like those concepts.)
OH! And horses that panic...and then the rider tries to leave them alone when really the horse needs some structure and boundaries. That's good stuff too. Its so strange to me because I used to ride quite difficult horses as a teenager, when I took dressage lessons, and this was back before I had ever heard the words "natural horsemanship" and I was great at giving flighty horses boundaries, it's what my instructor told me to do, and it also seemed to be my natural instinct for it. Now that I am older I am much more educated on the importance of such boundaries, and I have a fairly calm and reliable horse...and whenever he does spook at something (which is really pretty rare, I guess I mean when he lifts his head suddenly and something captures his attention outside the ring) what do I do??? I TURN AND LOOK!!!! (palm * forehead). Arggghhh. I guess its either because Sage is so calm that if HE finds it scary, well then, I BELIEVE him, or that I've gotten less confident in my old age. I do wonder how I would be now with the flighty horses I used to ride as a teenager. Needless to say, I think setting boundaries for them and staying calm when they have a moment like that is so much easier said than done.
With the idea of accuracy...#1 the lady who started Sage under saddle was a Monty Roberts freak (worse than some of the PQ's I've met) and she really said that horses are yes or no animals. Either you ARE in charge, or you're not. There is no maybe. That was really valuable for me to hear. The other cocept that I find goes well with that is Sally Swift's centered riding stuff...because she talks about how horses think in pictures, and if we can VISUALIZE clearly in our minds what we want the horse to do, then chances are better that the horse will do it.
Small looks great by the third backing up picture!!! (And I love the hot pink helmet...)
And...the whole don't worry so much about past mistakes thing...that's been such a tough lesson for me, but I like his philosophy on it. That's another thing my MR fanatical trainer used to say last spring.
WOW! What an improvement Lottie made...that's a whole different horse! Tom's principle of moving if the horse moves and releasing if the horse stays still is similar to Parelli's concept of "approach and retreat" too...unless I'm understanding it wrong?
Overall sounds like a very enlightening clinic...